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Friday, 16 Oct, 2009

Posted by Mandee on October 16, 2009   |   22 Comments

Why Your Chiropractor is not a Doctor – Science and Chiropractic

Silence Dissent!

When in doubt, call yourself a Doctor

Post thoughts to comments.

For time:
21 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
18 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
15 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
12 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
9 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
6 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters
3 Hip-Back Extensions
Run 400 meters

Post time to comments.

22 responses to “Friday, 16 Oct, 2009”

  1. joe c says:

    20:56 scaled worked on form with hip ext>>

  2. Aaron says:

    What?!? No squats of any form in today’s WOD???
    23:13 Scaled – only performed hip extensions

  3. Tricer says:

    5am start for 14 Miles from Research park up and through Rainbow Mountain, and up and down the walking trail. Plan on hitting at least the hip extensions today, and maybe swap the 400m for some pull ups…..

    i think yesterday’s workout needed a name…. It was at least as hard as Elizabeth.

    1/2 @ 135#, and 1/2 @ 115# = 34:10

    Rich

  4. klowe says:

    Kindof a recess day for me today. Lots of walking around, talking, with the occasional lifting of semi-heavy objects. Time – 40 minutes

    …..maybe a bit burned out???…..perhaps a rest is in order.

  5. dunnbball says:

    21:49 scaled with hip extensions only

  6. Daniel says:

    Not for time, but did the workout. Focused on back extension. Also did a few pull-ups, HSPUs, dead lifts box jumps, and warmed up with the jump rope and good mornings. Casual get the blood pumping workout and that is it. I’m ready for a meathead day.

  7. Jake Naumcheff says:

    As Rx’d 19:56

  8. Robert Montgomery says:

    5 Rounds for time:
    135# Hang Squat Clean- 15 Reps
    30 Push Ups
    Time: 21.52

    3 hours later:
    2 mile tabata run with 10#vest at cross country course: sprint 20 secs/jog 10 secs for 2 miles.

    15:46

    This run was annoying as hell having to change pace every 20 secs for 2 miles. I guess it was good for acceleration training from a jog but It would have been much less annoying and faster to just sprint the whole thing …

  9. Krista says:

    27:33 scaled with hip extensions

  10. klowe says:

    Wow. I almost missed today’s reading points out of general apathy. Glad I went back to see what they were. One of my favorite subjects! Just what is it that chiropractors do? My opinions are formed by actual experience. None fabricated.

    Wow. Where to begin?….I’ll also cut is a bit short and spare boring details….and as a disclaimer. Western based medicine is not the “be all end all” of medicine. Other methods do seem to work (accupuncture for example). Not fully understood but seem to work none-the-less. My rant is specifically about the CLAIMS that chiropractors make about what can be HEALED with chiro and the preying on naivety of general public.

    To start. One of the first lessons we learned in vet school. “about 70% of things treated would have eventually healed on their own; the body is an excellent self-healer”. Medical intervention can speed up the process, make it less painful, and make it more exact.”–{SIC}

    So there I am a fresh graduate of vet school (Western scientific based medicine) and I’m all excited about what I’ve learned and overwhelmed about the complexity of the animal body. Total immersion. We were taught to think about what and why we were doing things and to always ask to see the studies….see the proof of why we were doing what we were doing. Any good system be it CrossFit, medicine, or manufactured product should have a way of testing if something works and adressing risks involved with the process. Apparently chiropractic has close to none. A good friend of mine went through chiro school at Life University in Atlanta. Apparently part of the curriculum is to ATTACK anything or anyone that questions chiro methods. We sat together both recent graduates of our respective schools and discussed what we were taught. I was told that chrio can CURE: cancer, allergies, infections, genetic disorders, seizures (intracranial – meaning no joints to adjust), hormonal imbalances, diabetes as well as back pain. I’m sure there were others. — completely amazed by these disturbing claims I asked how this was so. Basically an impinged nerve of any type can cause things to “go out of whack” leading to cancer, allergies, etc, etc…blah, blah—-from the basic premise that without the brain there is no life, nerves are sent impulses from the brain, therefore the brain and nerve impulses control the function of ALL body processes. OK…what about the endocrine system? answer…controlled by nerves. uhhh OK…what about the immune system? answer…controlled by nerves. ummm OK. Seeing that this was quickly evolving into a rhetorical argument at the current level I decided to ask about functions at the cellular level (example….cancer or overactive mast cells)?…–answer. Controlled by nerves…. I asked if the body has a redundant systems of positive and negative feedback mechanisms…and the answer I received was “yes but the nerves control everything”—-which is completely contradictory.

    Here is where it got weird. Being taught the scientific method I’d ask to see some evidence of these claims.

    OK. This is getting ridiculous. “You were really taught these things?”….Yep and they are true. Can I see the evidence. Have these claims been tested, where studies that demonstrate a challenge of the claim with positive, predictable, repeatable results???the peer reviewed journals? The “accepted” science?…anything? ==== these are not unfair questions to ask and most reasonable people would like to know and as far as health care is concerned, people NEED to know. I got nothing but a counter attack about how (I”m not bullshitting here”)…about how all western trained doctors are influenced by the ilks of multi-national drug companies that control what and how we are taught. All scientific medical studies are ULTIMATELY controlled by big pharma because the natural non drug dependent nature of chiropractic care threatens the profitability of these companies.

    Basically he told me that I and any western scientifically trained doctor is a willing or unwilling pawn of drug companies.

    Cool. I’m part of a greater conspiracy. I had no idea.

    Anyways…we progressed to discuss late into the night. I walked away with the conclusion that chiropractic is based on a completely false “science” and a total general misunderstand of how the body works. That basically achieves most of their results convincing people that chiro “made” them better when it really was their own bodies and time that did the trick. Naive sick people with REAL diseases such as cancer, endocrine diseases, infections, behavior, etc are going to chiropractors for treatment because they are convince that chiro will help. Thus wasting valuable time and money. SNAKE OIL! because if it did fix these things then it would be accepted every day public dogma.

    —so– now part II, my real life chiropractic experience.
    Living in Atlanta I had injured my back (which in turn was really a pulled muscle–that SUPRISE!!–healed with time and rest)…….anyway. The pain was really getting annoying and out of total desperation I called my friend and asked for a referral to a good chiropractor b/c at that point I’d try anything. Refered to a place off of West Paces Ferry (can’t remember the name)

    I thought. My back hurts. This sucks…but I’m going to be open minded and objective about this process.-

    First I have to fill out an entire survey of history….including my profession….(which I answered as construction–not tip off my medical training because I wanted to hear the “pitch”.

    Next. I HAD to read a pamphlet titled “WHY CHIROPRACTIC WORKS” and CORRECTLY answer questions about what I just read. —I can’t make this stuff up— so I read it. Basically the same mantra my friend and I discussed. Everything goes back to the brain that controls the nerves…and the nerves somehow control the brain. — I had to read this pamphlet, answer the questions -correctly- before the “doctor” would see me.
    —-This is total indoctrinating brainwashing garbage—–

    I stuck with the process because I wanted to see how far it would go. I played the game. I stood on two scales to determine how much weight was on each foot, I stretched and bended, and had radiographs taken of my spine.

    My results!…………Drum roll please…………CHRONIC SCOLIOSIS OF THE SPINE….wow.
    In 30 years of my life all the doctors I had ever seen had missed that one.

    I was told I’d need to COMMIT to 20 adjustment sessions to heal this problem….and that the scoliosis was ultimately the cause of my lower back pain (see above). I was told again and again that I would NOT see tremendous results from the first 1-4 adjustments. It was a process and would take time. I had to affirm this statement and believe it…..”because most people get frustrated with lack of results and quit prior to having their problem fixed”. –once again…i’m not making this up.

    So I let him pop my back but told him to stay the hell away from my neck. He poked and prodded, made some cool sounds, and I got up (still with the back pain I presented for)…and went home.

    My thoughts were that this entire industry is based on convincing them that chiro cures their problems if they commit to a regimen of adjustments….(basically having them pay for their own bodies healing themselves)….the rest was just total out right lies. The cancer stuff, the allergies, the hormonal imbalances which was cured by chiro. All lies based on brainwashing the naive people desperate for help due to back pain. It still pisses me off…….and don’t even get me started on the “veterinary” chiropractors. There is not enough internet space for that.

    Long story short. I went home. Humored and angry. Took some advil, rested for a few days and low and behold my back pain was gone.

    hmmmm……maybe he did cure my scoliosis???

  11. klowe says:

    …….and lastly last. I could write another “longer” diatribe about chiropractic “medicine” and vaccinations. ONce again a very long discussion with my chiropractic friend.

    Long story short. “A healthy, properly aligned human” does not need vaccines for diseases and that vaccines are unnecessary and have caused more harm than good”.

    Pretty easy to say when you live in a Western Industrialized Nation whos non-vaccinated kids are protected by the “heard health” of all the other vaccinated children.

    Let me ask you this. You live in sub-sahara africa…and your family and friends are dying of a viral disease. Would you want a chiropractic adjustment and it total absence of efficacious evidence or a proven to work (but still with risks) vaccine?

    but once again….asking that to a chiro is a rhetorical question.

  12. Kerri says:

    As rx’ed 30:23
    Not fun, cold, running was the ‘rest’, the hip/back extensions were tough just to stay engaged throughout;but it was the toughest trying to keep the snot in my nose after running out in the cold and then hanging half of my body upside down….. Who knew CrossFit would put my modesty to the test???

  13. Robert S. says:

    On duty again today, so I was forced to hit the NASA gym.

    Had to do my best on the hip back extensions on one of those incline back extension things and ran on the treadmil.

    19:40

    I will be finishing up a 72 hr shift tomorrow so I will be at the NASA gym again…… I miss CFHSV…..

  14. Katherine Berger says:

    Stopped somewhere around 18-19 minutes into the workout and I was almost through the last run before set 3. My back hurt with every step and I decided to call it a day and just walked it in.

    Much as this sucked, it was a good workout for me and helped me to focus more on connecting my brain with my low back muscles (a very difficult task for me).

  15. Patrick says:

    Congratulations Kevin…
    Longest FRAT in history of CFHSV.

  16. Patrick says:

    Chiropractics is pseudo-scientific quackery. Smarmy used car salesmen in a white coats.
    They provide a glorified back rub with a bunch of gobbledy gook sprinkled on top.
    Now, if you understand that up front and are willing to ignore the bullsh_t, you might get some relief from having your back cracked. Caveat emptor.

    A good (ie. painful) deep tissue massage or myofascial release is a better use for your hard earned dollar.

  17. klowe says:

    sweet!

    Patrick,
    What do I win?

    and lastly, super last (promise). I am open minded enough that if a chiro ever wants to present tested proof that their “quackery” is worth anything….I’m all ears and willing to accept proven efficacious methods…..but……I’m still waiting for that to emerge.

    OK. I’m done.

  18. Daniel says:

    I’ve never been to a chiro, but I know one person that benefited from chiropractic work directly and unambiguously where time alone did not and probably would not have ever cured his problem.

    Jeremy Duncan, an old workout buddy, had problems benching and with squats and dead lifts. He had a pain in his back and his side that hurt every time he went even slightly heavy, and it had been this way since high school. He was 8 years out of high school at that time. He had injured himself in football practice. No doctor and he had been to several had yet correctly diagnosed his problem. I urged him to try another doc. He did. He looked up in his blue cross book for a back doctor and it pointed him to a local chiro.

    In one visit, the chiro noticed that one of his rib heads had popped out of its socket, and apparently it had been this way for years. He popped it back in, and after the initial soreness of the adjustment went away, he has since never experienced that pain while lifting. He was fixed by a simple adjustment.

    Granted an ortho worth his salt could have done the same thing, but up until that point the only therapy he had been prescribed by his various docs was pain meds and rest, none of which had helped.

  19. Patrick says:

    Ahhh, the good ol’ slipped a rib trick.

    Daniel, I’m glad things worked out for your friend. But your anecdote just serves to prove that even a blind sow can root up an acorn every now and then.

    You can prove anything if your study cohort is n=1.

  20. Daniel says:

    I’m not trying to prove anything. Its my duty to be the opposing voice on this forum, and that’s the only thing I had. ;0)

  21. Katie says:

    Can’t remember exact time! Hopefully its still on the board. I’m thinking 30+minutes.

    Surprisingly, my back was not sore today! This WOD was different than our usual WODS, but extremely necessary for me. I obviously need to work on lower back strength/flexibility, and this showed me a great exercise to do that.

  22. Clint says:

    Patrick I love your observation, I try to stay away from the witch doctors.

    RX 19:59
    Left half my lung on the pavement, finished with the good half. I seriously need to put in some time running, my lack of running seriously is starting to piss me off.